Public Housing Mould Nightmare

Public Housing Mould Nightmare

Hello, and welcome to this week's livestream. My name's Doctor Cameron Jones, and today we are focusing on water damage and mould in public housing. This is a really important topic, and I've got a very special guest who I interviewed earlier this week, and I'm bringing you her story in her own words.

But before we move on to this interview I want to go through some of the really important statistics which impact on water damage and mould, because we are focusing on public housing. And many of you might have an idea in your mind that public housing is these typical Housing Commission style apartment blocks. But they're very much different, and there's a lot of different types and styles of public and community housing out there. And I wanted to focus on what essentially is, in my mind, a hidden problem of water damage and mould in community housing.

But before we talk about this I wanted to just talk about the general housing trends in Australia in 2019. And, essentially, most Australians own their own homes at 67%. 31% of the population are renting, especially young people under the age of 35. And since 2016, with housing affordability in Australia changing and becoming more expensive, there has been an increase in the number of people under the age of 35 who are remaining in the rental market. And that's increased from 47 to 54%.

Now, 25% of people lease from private landlords, but there are an important group that we're focusing on today, and 4% rent from state housing authorities. And when we had our last census, back in 2016, 116,000 people were actually homeless. And over the last decade there has been a change in the occupancy rate or the density of people in housing. And, essentially, one in four people are living in a single person household.

Now, I mentioned housing affordability, and I've pulled up a graph that the government has produced regarding affordability in Australia. You can see for each of the states and territories that the median house price over the last, essentially, decade and a half has been increasing in all capital cities. And really, what this means, is that with houses being more expensive to own and similarly people purchasing properties as an investment for rental housing, that approximately 12% of households are spending 30 to 50% of their gross income on housing costs. And 6% are spending 50% or more of all the money that they receive from their jobs on housing. And so, this is putting tremendous strain on lots of different people.

Now, what types of housing assistance are available? Well, obviously if you don't own or rent privately, social housing from the government comes in a couple of different forms. There is public housing, there is community housing, and then there is owned and managed Indigenous housing or community housing. Alternatively you can access rent assistance. There are homelessness services available and, of course, there is the First Home Owners Grant to stimulate the population into getting into the private ownership housing market.

However, what happens to those people who are receiving housing assistance in Australia? Well, in 2017 and '18, 800,000 Australians were in social housing across 400,000 dwellings. And today I'm focusing on these 400,000 homes because, as I said at the beginning, not everyone is living in Housing Commission style old-fashioned towers. I also want to say that most people are accessing housing assistance for public housing, but there are increasing numbers of people accessing services via community housing. And the majority of people are in some sort of financial or life crisis or stress. They may be experiencing episodes of homelessness or be dealing with a disability. And for those who are dealing with a disability the statistics are quite shocking with 38.1% of people in housing assistance having some form of disability.

Now, be aware that most social housing is public housing stock at 72% verus only 19%, which is used for community housing. And, as I said at the outset, it's not all old-fashioned style Housing Commission block towers. 38% of the housing assistance is provided in detached homes. 35% are in flats, units, or apartments, and 26% are in semi-detached town houses. The statistics also show that in public housing the majority of buildings are three bedroom style accommodation, whereas in social housing they're more likely to be one or two bedroom dwellings. And the occupancy rate across the country is very high with 97% of the housing stock filled for public and 95% for community housing.

It's also important to mention that the majority of occupants are females in social housing, and their age range, 20 to 30% of those are under the age of 15, whereas 30% are over the age of 55. We're now moving towards the pointy end of what this livestream is all about. Government statistics report that 75% of those in social housing, community public housing, are satisfied with their home, and that satisfaction is closely related to the condition of their home, or the dwelling, and that satisfaction levels fall with an increasing number of structural problems and building defects.

Now, I stated at the outset that 800,000 Australians are accessing this form of housing across 400,000 different dwellings. If 25% of them are dissatisfied that means that there are 100,000 homes where people have concerns. And today I want to talk to someone and bring you an interview about this very real problem of tenant satisfaction and how this relates to water damage and mould exposure.

And so, I had the pleasure of interviewing a resident of public housing, and she's going to be telling you, in her own words, what's happened to her in the last decade or more. She's going to be talking about the struggles that she's encountered with bringing the problem of water damage and mould to the attention of key stakeholders, the responsible authority. And I hope that this shines a light very strongly on government public housing and community housing, and the fact that these individuals need better access to complaint mechanisms and better ways of developing dialogue around very real public health problems around water damage and mould. In any case, I'm going to play this interview for you and then talk to you afterwards.

Facebook Livestream:

Now today I'm conducting an interview with Client X, and that's not her real name, because she is a Department of Health and Human Services housing occupant. I met her back in 2015 when I was requested by her to come out to her property and do an indoor air quality and mould inspection. Now, this property was in Victoria. It was in a residential neighborhood, and the reason for that is that she told me on the telephone before I got there that her hair had begun falling out some 18 months prior and that she had noted darkening or discoloration on the ceiling. And, on top of that, her daughter had become ill. So, the point of my inspection was to work out whether there was or was not any evidence for water damage and mould that could potentially be contributing to her symptoms. And I've got her on the line now. So, welcome Client X.

Client X: Hi, Cameron. How are you, Doctor Cameron?

Cameron Jones: Oh, look, I'm really well, and thank you very much for reaching out to me. I just put this social post up less than a week ago. I was after people exactly like you to talk with me about their experience of water damage and mould. And, as I said in the brief introduction, I met you a couple of years ago back in 2015. I've got your lab reports in front of me now.

Client X: Cool, yeah.

Cameron Jones: And I want to hear from you exactly why I came to be involved in the first place. Could you tell me a little bit about that, back in 2015?

Client X: Yeah. Well, that's when I began feeling unwell, yeah, with the symptoms like you said, and a lot of other weird crazy symptoms as they are with the mould. But when I'd spoken to you, you conducted the test.

Cameron Jones: And I think it's important to say that you had actually resided in that property for quite some time, hadn't you?

Client X: In the government's residence, yes, for 14 years. My daughter was four when we moved in there. And over the years, when I'd been sick I had put it down to stress or whatever, being a single mum. But becoming of 2015, to call you was because the sicker I was getting the more I was home, the more I was home the sicker I was getting. The symptoms: I'm losing the hair. My daughter, her skin condition, it still now is terrible, which that's sores, scars for life, she has.

Cameron Jones: Now, back then you complained about sores on your head-

Client X: Correct.

Cameron Jones: ... and there was a lot of candida-type microorganisms that we were able to culture out. So, are you saying you're still getting these types of reactions?

Client X: Correct. I've seen numerous doctors, professionals of dermatologists, to be told that I have delusional parasites. They are disregarding your evidence, the scientific report, that it's nothing. Yeah, they're just not listening to [crosstalk 00:13:02]-

Cameron Jones: Yeah, I've got a few comments to make on that because, as I said, I've pulled out the report that I've got back from 2015, and in that preamble in the introduction I noted that you were talking about your skin reactions including psoriasis. The fact that you thought that your symptoms seemed to get worse in the master bedroom, and you hadn't even slept in that room for some 18 months. Now-

Client X: Correct. I shut my door, yeah.

Cameron Jones: ... I'm going to jump ahead and explain to people who are listening exactly what we found, because we found a terrible mould contamination and lots of problems with the roof void. When I actually went up into the roof void there's something called sarking, which is a type of insulation, that was affixed directly to the underside of the roofing tiles, and it was torn in multiple locations. And, in fact, there was mould growing inside the sarking and also outside the sarking and all over what are called the wooden truss beams as well.

Client X: That's right.

Cameron Jones: So, in a sense you had a massive mould problem that you were living above.

Client X: We have the photographs of that. They were just terrible, yes.

Cameron Jones: Yeah, they're pretty awful, and your indoor air quality in terms of particle sizing, what you're actually breathing in, was horrific in comparison to the outdoor control. And then when we cultured samples from the roof void, surface samples again, they turned out with an extremely high hygiene level and a severe risk. So, according to the Australian mould guideline, you had a grade 4 or visible mould growth of greater than 10 square meters. Now, I understand that the Department of Health and Human Services actually did act on that report. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

Client X: I walked into Dandenong Housing. It took within 40 minutes for somebody to ring me to say that I would get the upmost priority of move, and they were very sorry. Now, I was homeless for eight weeks with my daughter.

Cameron Jones: Okay.

Client X: I had no family support. So, they offered me nothing immediately, and I was given a key to another water damaged building eight weeks later.

Cameron Jones: Okay. So, once I gave you-

Client X: I lost it.

Cameron Jones: ... this report they acted on it. They moved you, but you weren't-

Client X: Eight weeks later, yeah.

Cameron Jones: ... happy with the type of accommodation.

Client X: Correct.

Cameron Jones: Did anything go right for you?

Client X: Nothing's gone right for me since.

Cameron Jones: Oh, far out.

Client X: I've lost friends. I've lost faith in the medical professional industry. I've had no support, and my daughter dropped out of her year 11 VCE to stay home and look after me since.

Cameron Jones: Oh, I'm very sorry to hear that. So, you've mentioned a couple of points I want to highlight here. So, the impact of the water damaged building, once that was verified with independent evidence the department acted on it. But then, did they compensate you in any way for the cost of the report or back rent that you had paid?

Client X: Yeah. They did actually compensate me for the test you conducted, the cost of that.

Cameron Jones: And did they give you any rental arrears-

Client X: Yes.

Cameron Jones: ... in a sense admitting that there's a problem with the building?

Client X: Yeah. They gave me rental arrears according to the date that you conducted the test.

Cameron Jones: So, really, only a couple of weeks between the date of the test and the submission of the final report. That's pretty poor isn't it-

Client X: Correct.

Cameron Jones: ... considering you were there for 14 years? You were complaining about health problems for at least 18 months prior to calling me.

Client X: Numerous. Yes, yes. Correct.

Cameron Jones: Wow, that's a pretty poor indictment on the Department of Heath and Human Services. I gather that this probably started with a maintenance complaint. Could you tell me about this issue of maintenance, not just back in 2015 but now? Because from what you're saying, the problem has extended to a new property.

Client X: Correct.

Cameron Jones: So, I guess my question is, how does Housing Vic. deal with maintenance complaints?

Client X: Well, it's very hard to get in contact with them. You've got to email them now, which a lot of public tenants don't have access to computers or internet. And if they do come out they will, I don't know, they try and smooth things over very smoothly.

Cameron Jones: Have you ever heard of the term 'normal wear and tear'? Was that ever put to you?

Client X: Yeah.

Cameron Jones: What I'm getting at is I looked up on Housing Vic.'s website about something called responsive maintenance.

Client X: Okay.

Cameron Jones: And it says that, "If you need maintenance or repairs," and then the next sentence is, "due to normal wear and tear or damage caused by your household or visitors." It sounds like a bit of a loaded gun against you, really, doesn't it?

Client X: It's a little bit, yeah.

Cameron Jones: Because when we talk about normal wear and tear, well, that leads into decay and breakdown of the building envelope. And certainly in your situation you had long-term building decay contributing to water ingress, which eventually grew mould, which eventually entered your property, which we assume is connected with your adverse health. Because, did you go and see a doctor around about that time? And if you did, what did the medical doctor say about your constellation of symptoms in you and your daughter?

Client X: I was put on my file that I have delusional parasites, and that I'm an overanxious, worried woman.

Cameron Jones: Even back then?

Client X: With your 34 or 38 page report, yes.

Cameron Jones: That is-

Client X: By the medical profession and Centrelink.

Cameron Jones: That's very, very concerning. So, now-

Client X: And I'm-

Cameron Jones: Yeah?

Client X: I'm exposing other people to these illnesses.

Cameron Jones: Well, look, by talking with me you certainly are, and really, that's the point of this interview today. I want to highlight the troubles that you've had, because even though I wrote the report, this is using established metrics to test for indoor air quality and water damage. That's undeniable. And the evidence and visual evidence and calculated data confirms that you had a very problematic property back in 2015.

Cameron Jones: And even a non-scientist, any of the people who would have been sent out, a contractor, any type of contractor, would have been able to witness all the water damaged and torn sarking inside the roof void. So, the stains that you saw were water damage stains. Anyone can reach that conclusion just by doing a simple walk around the property. I find it very concerning that then a medical practitioner disputed or wasn't willing to look at the environment factors as potential problems. How has that affected your state of mind?

Client X: I have now got overanxious feelings. I don't want to leave the house. Every time I see a doctor I'm getting prejudged, and I'm just constantly getting prescribed Prozacs, antidepressants. It's all in my head. That's all [crosstalk 00:21:34] the medical profession give.

Cameron Jones: Well, look, all I can suggest is that you go and see another medical practitioner. And look, that's a bit outside my experience.

Client X: Yeah, thank you.

Cameron Jones: But I want to ask you as another question, in moving between 2015 and now, did anything positive happen to you when you moved to the new property like a different job, a schooling, or you mentioned your daughter? I guess I'm trying to establish whether anything good came out of the move from the first water damaged property.

Client X: No, not at all.

Cameron Jones: Okay. So, with the second property, how did you reach the conclusion that that was possibly water damaged?

Client X: Upon moving into the second property that they gave us, when it rained we could hear dripping. My daughter heard dripping in her room. So, we called out Housing Maintenance to replace tiles, and he reassured us that the dampness would dry out.

Cameron Jones: So, the department sent someone out?

Client X: And that was when we first moved in, in 2015. Four years ago.

Cameron Jones: Four years ago. So, four years ago they replaced some tiles-

Client X: Correct.

Cameron Jones: ... which essentially is admitting that there is a roofing problem. Do you recall anyone-

Client X: Numerous-

Cameron Jones: ... changing your insulation?

Client X: No. I've rang Housing also numerous attempts about something leaking under my toilet. The toilet's leaking, the whole floorboards in the kitchen and the whole wet area is all damp and falling through. The hallway has fallen through, and they've replaced it with chipboard.

Cameron Jones: You're joking?

Client X: They ripped up the carpet to check for termites in my bedroom, and the floorboard fell through. They ripped off a fence paling, put it under and slapped the carpet down.

Cameron Jones: Now, this is highly concerning, because house-

Client X: So, I'm now not in my bedroom again, and now I've got no clothes and stuff again. I've now had to throw out everything I've tried to replace.

Cameron Jones: Well, again, I said I did a little bit of-

Client X: What a loss.

Cameron Jones: ... research on Housing Victoria, and under the heading and webpage, "Who fixes my maintenance problem?" it says, "We employ professional contractors to carry out maintenance like plumbers and electricians." Now, again, the tenor of this webpage is the onus of responsibility appears to be on you to be polite, to check their identification, to abide by any requirements that they might have such as emptying kitchen and bathroom cupboards. How do we know that the maintenance problem was professionally addressed?

Client X: Well, when I heard the maintenance man saying that he saw over 200 creatures crawling out of under my carpet in my bedroom to his superiors that made me really wonder what is going on. And I also heard that the engineer has been out checking the stumps underneath and the floor is unsafe.

Cameron Jones: So, if an engineer's come out to check the structural stability of the floor, and you know for a fact that the floor underneath the toilet is chipboard, a composite timber, when that gets wet that easily becomes mouldy.

Client X: Sure.

Cameron Jones: And if you've got structural decay, meaning that the floor is moving, that's a big, big-

Client X: They've got [inaudible 00:25:26].

Cameron Jones: It's a big red flag that you've probably got a mould problem as well. Now, it's very concerning because on the one hand you've been moved once after 14 years of quiet enjoyment of your property. I take that-

Client X: My daughter is still upset about leaving her home.

Cameron Jones: Yeah, how old is your daughter?

Client X: My daughter's 21 now. She's unwell. Centrelink finally recognized that she does have some issues. So, they aren't exhausting her and stressing her out to go out to look for work at the moment. They've given her three months off just for now. But she's actually looking after me.

Cameron Jones: Right. Well, do you think the department is even aware that there are international standards such as the IICRC S500 and S520? And just to summarize that in one sentence, that states that the preferred method of dealing with water damage and mould remediation, that is when they identify that there is a need for maintenance, is something called source removal. Source removal, by its very definition, means removing the water damaged and mould affected building elements. That doesn't appear to have happened to the chipboard flooring. And you say that there are critters. What type of critters? Is this pests under your carpet? Is the carpet still there?

Client X: Yes. The carpet's there. Everything. They've pulled out a termite exterminator company, poisoned the whole place. Three months later someone came out to check under the floor, the engineering under the floor again. They're knocking and banging to see where the termites have eaten out, and we're still left in no limbo. I have contacted my local member of parliament to-

Cameron Jones: Oh, that's good.

Client X: ... investigate some of this. And he's not really helped a lot either. And I believe he might be the Minister of Health at the moment.

Cameron Jones: Oh, is he currently in opposition?

Client X: Yes.

Cameron Jones: Or is he for the elected government?

Client X: Oh, I'm not sure of those meanings.

Cameron Jones: That's okay.

Client X: Elected [crosstalk 00:27:49].

Cameron Jones: In any case, he's got a professional responsibility to his constituents.

Client X: Oh, I believe in the rights. That's what that says, yeah. But whether they're doing that, I'm questioning that too, because it's not getting done. They're not doing it, clearly.

Cameron Jones: All right. Now, what do you see in your future?

Client X: It's not really bright. I am on anti-anxiety medications. I don't leave the house. I was a very happy, bubbly independent strong-willed woman, and I am now a broken person that has to have her daughter look after her, who missed out on her childhood and her VCE to look after her unwell mother. That I feel I have been failed. I have no family support, no social workers' support, not even from Centrelink, not from Housing.

Cameron Jones: And we're talking about building decay-

Client X: Okay. It's very serious.

Cameron Jones: ... that any person up and down high street in any town or city across Australia would probably agree it's not good to have moving floors. It's not good to have insects or bugs under your carpet in an indoor bedroom. It's not good to be able to hear rainwater. It's not good to know that there has probably just been very minimal maintenance and that the big ticket item for rainwater through your roof is definitely what happens to the porous void insulation, because when that gets wet it grows mould, and that easily enters around the perimeters of down-lights. And in a sense you're being constantly exposed to mould every time you enter your property.

Client X: And my daughter now, her health has declined so much, and I believe it's the room. Her bedroom is right next to the bathroom.

Cameron Jones: Is there any odor?
Client X: Yes. The laundry smells of damp mould. And you can clearly see on the top of the eaves all the rebed and pointing off the roof has come off. I've had the Inspector of Housing come out and take photos, and he believes it's not a problem.

Cameron Jones: Right, so it's a-

Client X: So, there's all exposed tiles, rebedding and pointing, all has come off, and it will be all leaking through the house right at this moment, and they've not done anything. That was the head, actually, of Housing. He took photos himself. I don't want to put his name out there, but he knows who he is.

Cameron Jones: So, what you're saying in a sense, it's a pattern of behavior of doing minimal work and then, in a sense, it sounds like lip service. Someone comes out to address a token aspect of the problem, but at no stage is it professionally dealt with, so that you can move on and have quiet enjoyment, amenity, and protection of your OH&S. Because, it sounds to me like you and your daughter have been significantly impacted by water damage and mould for many, many years.

Client X: Yes.

Cameron Jones: Look, as a final question, obviously the point of this interview is to highlight the fact that you have experienced problems. If you had the ability to advocate for other people who are potentially suffering from mould or building defects-

Client X: That is exactly what I would love.

Cameron Jones: ... what would you want to say to them? What have you learnt from your experience?

Client X: Don't doubt yourself. Don't let other people judge you and think that it must be something else. If you feel that there is something going on in your home, or your workplace, or in a certain place that you're not feeling well, and as crazy as the symptoms seem, you need to have the house tested. Air, the lot, because it's deep. I've lost all my family.

Cameron Jones: I should say that before the interview you did mention right at the outset that one or more of your family members, they didn't really-

Client X: Understand or believe.

Cameron Jones: That's a horrible position to not be believed by your own family.

Client X: From your own immediate family, it's very hard.

Cameron Jones: Well, it sounds to me like mould has had a significant adverse impact on your life and the life of your daughter. It's really a question now of, I would hope, Housing Victoria moving you again or professionally remediating this home and, I guess, since I haven't seen this home, it sounds to me that it needs a independent qualified building inspector to properly go over the house from top to bottom.

Cameron Jones: It sounds like an independent indoor air professional, microbiologist, mycologist, occupational hygienist, or some specialist with those skills needs to inspect or test the property in order to provide a report to the department on the state of its microbiological safety. And it sounds to me that you should get back to the member and encourage him or her to take a second look at this, because if it's happening to you it's probably happening to many other people and not just in Victoria.

Client X: That's what worries me. Yes.

Cameron Jones: And Housing Victoria's also responsible for disability services as well.

Client X: Yeah.

Cameron Jones: And I would imagine that there are other-

Client X: They're playing on the weak.

Cameron Jones: Yeah.

Client X: Yeah.

Cameron Jones: Well, look, you said it, and I concur with you. There is a concern in my mind that there are people who may not be able to advocate well for themselves or may not-

Client X: They might not [inaudible 00:34:49] mentally challenged in different ways or too sick from being water damaged, and they're just being constantly ignored, put on the wrong medications, and then ultimately just writ off that they're crazy.

Cameron Jones: Well, I think today has been very valuable. Client X, I guess I'd like to end with something positive, but I think the most positive thing you've done is articulate your experience, what's happened to you for really the lifetime of your daughter's life. You as her mother have obviously made every effort to protect her, and it sounds like the Department of Health and Human Services has let both of you down.
Client X: I feel that too, which is really sad because I thought they were there to help us. When we really needed help, and they've left us... We're now in a welfare trap where we can't get better to get out to educate and to get into the workforce. It's a vicious cycle.

Cameron Jones: Well, yeah, I-

Client X: But without people like you, Doctor Cameron, it's you and me and other people that have gone through this, we are going to make sure that this doesn't go hidden.
Cameron Jones: It needs to not go unnoticed, and all lives are important and valuable, and I think that the government would agree with that. It sounds to me like there needs to be some serious change at the policy level and certainly the standard operating procedures of Housing Victoria need quite significant revision with regard to maintenance, what is considered fair 'wear and tear', what is considered a foreseeable health and safety risk, and certainly I would hope that there's some action taken on this in the near term.

Client X: Yes, we can hope for that.

Cameron Jones: Look, I'm going to wrap this up now. Do you have any-

Client X: Thank you very much, Doctor.

Cameron Jones: ... final statement to say? Anything final you'd like to say?

Client X: Thank you very much for your time. You're the only one that's given me the voice and a ear to listen to, to know that anything I say to you, you're not going to judge me. You understand the symptoms and the unwellness and the unknowledged out there, but nobody knows how severe water damaged buildings can affect people's quality of life.

Cameron Jones: Well, look, thank you for your positive enthusiasm for my work in public health, but there are a lot of other people who are advocating for change in Australia. But, at the end of the day, what's most persuasive is people who, in a sense, like you say, are remaining hidden, and that's the whole point of government public health, to provide services for those in need.

Cameron Jones: And hopefully your story and my opinions will be listened to, as I said, in the short-term. I know you've just come from a medical appointment, so thank you for taking the time. I know you're in your car while we're doing this interview. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day, and I wish you well.

Client X: No, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Let's hope we can make some change, Cameron.

Cameron Jones: Excellent. I'll talk to you soon.

Client X: Thanks.

Cameron Jones: Bye for now.

Client X: Thank you, ciao.

Cameron Jones: Bye.

Cameron Jones: Well, it's pretty sad, isn't it, what happened to one person in public housing? And what I want to say in conclusion to this is that if you suspect that water damage or mould could be impacting the health and safety of anyone in public housing or community housing or Indigenous housing, please speak up. There are lots and lots of website links that you can find for every different state and territory across Australia. And it's well signposted online. They encourage you to make a complaint. They encourage you to bring support people with you. They encourage you to have a dialogue.

Cameron Jones: And I know that even the comments that have been posted on this livestream as it's been happening have been talking about the discouragement that people feel because they're not being heard or they're being dismissed. And I know that that is a sad indictment on society. But it's important that health and safety, really significant violations, are called out, and that Housing does need to consider their own housing stock and what policies and procedures are in place to maintain this housing stock in a condition whereby water damage and mould is not a significant factor.

Cameron Jones: I have to finish with this slide here. This is from Housing Victoria, and it says if you've got feedback and complaints, "You can give us feedback and complain about a service you have received." Well, I encourage you to jump onto this website and call out any violations that you might be aware of, or any situations that might be even suspicious. Because, at the end of the day, it's really important that you do follow through and call out situations that could put other people in harm's way. And for those of you not in Victoria each state and territory is going to have some electronic platform for you to be able to make a complaint. And I encourage you to do that because, as the government statistics themselves state, 75% of people are satisfied with their accommodation, but what about the other 25%?

Cameron Jones: In any case, my name's Doctor Cameron Jones. If you don't feel comfortable contacting these agencies yourself send me an email, DM me, contact me on any of my social channels, and I will be more than happy to take on your situation and bring it to the attention of a relevant stakeholder that should take your personal situation regarding mould and water damage seriously. Anyway, I'll be back next week. Have a great week and bye for now.

Dr. Cameron L. Jones


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